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China - The Rise of Totalitarian Capitalism

Luxman

#TRE45ON
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-rules.html

As the economy flourished, officials with a single-minded focus on growth often ignored widespread pollution, violations of labor standards, and tainted food and medical supplies. They were rewarded with soaring tax revenues and opportunities to enrich their friends, their relatives and themselves. A wave of officials abandoned the state and went into business. Over time, the party elite amassed great wealth, which cemented its support for the privatization of much of the economy it once controlled.

Of the many risks that the party took in its pursuit of growth, perhaps the biggest was letting in foreign investment, trade and ideas. It was an exceptional gamble by a country once as isolated as North Korea is today, and it paid off in an exceptional way: China tapped into a wave of globalization sweeping the world and emerged as the world’s factory. China’s embrace of the internet, within limits, helped make it a leader in technology. And foreign advice helped China reshape its banks, build a legal system and create modern corporations.

The party prefers a different narrative these days, presenting the economic boom as “grown out of the soil of China” and primarily the result of its leadership. But this obscures one of the great ironies of China’s rise — that Beijing’s former enemies helped make it possible.

The timing worked out for China, which opened up just as Taiwan was outgrowing its place in the global manufacturing chain. China benefited from Taiwan’s money, but also its managerial experience, technology and relationships with customers around the world. In effect, Taiwan jump-started capitalism in China and plugged it into the global economy.

Now Taiwan finds itself increasingly dependent on a much more powerful China, which is pushing ever harder for unification, and the island’s future is uncertain.

There are echoes of Taiwan’s predicament around the world, where many are having second thoughts about how they rushed to embrace Beijing with trade and investment.

The remorse may be strongest in the United States, which brought China into the World Trade Organization, became China’s largest customer and now accuses it of large-scale theft of technology — what one official called “the greatest transfer of wealth in history.”

Many in Washington predicted that trade would bring political change. It did, but not in China. “Opening up” ended up strengthening the party’s hold on power rather than weakening it. The shock of China’s rise as an export colossus, however, was felt in factory towns around the world.
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
Xi Jinping: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
 

zeeblofowl_1969

I don't know and frankly I don't care.
A slave state that treats its people a disposable entities.
The world should turn their backs on the murdering pieces of shit.
Greed will destroy us all.
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
Showdown - The China Angle with Simone Gao
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
'Absolutely credible' Xi Jinping will take Taiwan by force during his leadership


China's movements in South China Sea 'far far bigger than Taiwan'
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
'Absolutely credible' Xi Jinping will take Taiwan by force during his leadership


China's movements in South China Sea 'far far bigger than Taiwan'
Best time since 1948. We are still weak coming off two wars in 20 years. I suspect very few here in América care even a little bit about Taiwan and sure as hell will oppose sending the Navy to fight China. Where would we get our stuff? Best plan for Taiwan, submit quietly and save face hoping for a better deal that Hong Kong got.
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
A war with China would boost sales of American-made weapons, especially the new weapons that the pentagon and weapons makers and dealers are eager to test in the field.
China has been setting the groundwork all over the world to become the dominant economic and military power.
It's possible they included backdoors in the vital technology they sold to other countries, and with a few mouse clicks could possibly disable America's or any countries infrastructure, like power grids, internet, communications, etc.
 

tvstrip

I changed my middle-name to Freeones
I suspect very few here in América care even a little bit about Taiwan and sure as hell will oppose sending the Navy to fight China. Where would we get our stuff?

Isn't most of what the US needs to wage war already there? The largest buildup of US forces outside of the Middle-East is in Japan/S.Korea.
And if those US forces are attacked, I can't see why the public would be against sending more to protect/support them.
 

VillellaMcMeans

I'm a porn expert.
A war with China would boost sales of American-made weapons, especially the new weapons that the pentagon and weapons makers and dealers are eager to test in the field.
China has been setting the groundwork all over the world to become the dominant economic and military power.
It's possible they included backdoors in the vital technology they sold to other countries, and with a few mouse clicks could possibly disable America's or any countries infrastructure, like power grids, internet, communications, etc.

A war with China will just end up like the wars in Vietnam/Korea/Iraq/Afghanistan/etc - which is a war america cannot truly win.

Of course it will look like america won and that's what the propaganda from the government will be, but when the army leaves and ceases to occupy enemy territory that means nothing is gained and the war fought for nothing.

Both China and america don't want war because both know no one can win and it'll just be a waste of resources with nothing to gain.
 

VillellaMcMeans

I'm a porn expert.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-rules.html

As the economy flourished, officials with a single-minded focus on growth often ignored widespread pollution, violations of labor standards, and tainted food and medical supplies. They were rewarded with soaring tax revenues and opportunities to enrich their friends, their relatives and themselves. A wave of officials abandoned the state and went into business. Over time, the party elite amassed great wealth, which cemented its support for the privatization of much of the economy it once controlled.

Of the many risks that the party took in its pursuit of growth, perhaps the biggest was letting in foreign investment, trade and ideas. It was an exceptional gamble by a country once as isolated as North Korea is today, and it paid off in an exceptional way: China tapped into a wave of globalization sweeping the world and emerged as the world’s factory. China’s embrace of the internet, within limits, helped make it a leader in technology. And foreign advice helped China reshape its banks, build a legal system and create modern corporations.

The party prefers a different narrative these days, presenting the economic boom as “grown out of the soil of China” and primarily the result of its leadership. But this obscures one of the great ironies of China’s rise — that Beijing’s former enemies helped make it possible.

The timing worked out for China, which opened up just as Taiwan was outgrowing its place in the global manufacturing chain. China benefited from Taiwan’s money, but also its managerial experience, technology and relationships with customers around the world. In effect, Taiwan jump-started capitalism in China and plugged it into the global economy.

Now Taiwan finds itself increasingly dependent on a much more powerful China, which is pushing ever harder for unification, and the island’s future is uncertain.

There are echoes of Taiwan’s predicament around the world, where many are having second thoughts about how they rushed to embrace Beijing with trade and investment.

The remorse may be strongest in the United States, which brought China into the World Trade Organization, became China’s largest customer and now accuses it of large-scale theft of technology — what one official called “the greatest transfer of wealth in history.”

Many in Washington predicted that trade would bring political change. It did, but not in China. “Opening up” ended up strengthening the party’s hold on power rather than weakening it. The shock of China’s rise as an export colossus, however, was felt in factory towns around the world.

I think you're making this out worse than it really is. China did not need anyone to teach capitalism to them, capitalism exists everywhere already from the beginning of time.

If you mean that China has modernised and caught up to the rest of the world, well of course they did just like every other country is trying to modernize as well - had nothing to do with capitalism, as the video from your other capitalism thread adjust pointed out that capitalism is simply a tool everyone uses to do other things.

China is a dictatorship and totalitarian and fascist and is world power, that is worrisome - but to call a rise of totalitarian capitalism is not accurate.

Also, it's not like the other countries could have prevented China from modernizing and becoming powerful, the other countries obviously tried to stop China overly and covertly - but the end result is that no country could have stopped the China so the other countries had to accept doing business with China.

Just like how the world just has to accept doing business with the Taliban in Afghanistan and with Saudi Arabia etc.

It's either that or endless wars no one will win.
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
There are different forms of capitalism:
China has totalitarian or communist capitalism.
The Trump presidency was crony capitalism, but the USA is mainly corporate capitalism.
Russia has oligarchy capitalism.
Most western democracies have regulated or socialist capitalism.
 
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VillellaMcMeans

I'm a porn expert.
There are different forms of capitalism:
China has totalitarian or communist capitalism.
The Trump presidency was crony capitalism, but the USA is mainly corporate capitalism.
Russia has oligarchy capitalism.
Most western democracies have regulated or socialist capitalism.

I'm aware of these textbook definitions of capitalism they teach in school, but my point is that in each of those terms you can remove the word capitalism and it'll still describe those countries and their economic environments perfectly - because repeating the word capitalism is unnecessary, capitalism doesn't need to be repeatedly said because there isn't a single place in the world that doesn't already use it whether they describe it as capitalism or not.
 

gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
I'm aware of these textbook definitions of capitalism they teach in school, but my point is that in each of those terms you can remove the word capitalism and it'll still describe those countries and their economic environments perfectly - because repeating the word capitalism is unnecessary, capitalism doesn't need to be repeatedly said because there isn't a single place in the world that doesn't already use it whether they describe it as capitalism or not.
Impressive. Please tell us more jackass.
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
I'm aware of these textbook definitions of capitalism they teach in school, but my point is that in each of those terms you can remove the word capitalism and it'll still describe those countries and their economic environments perfectly - because repeating the word capitalism is unnecessary, capitalism doesn't need to be repeatedly said because there isn't a single place in the world that doesn't already use it whether they describe it as capitalism or not.
China had a purely communist failing economic system before they started to adopt capitalism around 1980, and mainly because US and European corporations wanted to open factories in China to benefit from Chinas cheap slave labor. Because US and European corporations teaching China how to build modern factories and corporations, China's economic power will surpass the USA in the next 20 years. Aholes like the current republican party and evil ahole Trump have accelerated America's decline.
Russia had a communist economic system before 1992 when the USSR collapsed, but because of their current corrupt oligarchy capitalism, controlled mainly by the Russian mafia which Putin has ties to, most Russians have yet to benefit from their form of capitalism.
In all the current countries that made up the USSR, most older people will say that life was better before 1992.
 
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VillellaMcMeans

I'm a porn expert.
China had a purely communist failing economic system before they started to adopt capitalism around 1980, and mainly because US and European corporations wanted to open factories in China to benefit from Chinas cheap slave labor. Because US and European corporations teaching China how to build modern factories and corporations, China's economic power will surpass the USA in the next 20 years. Aholes like the current republican party and evil ahole Trump have accelerated America's decline.
Russia had a communist economic system before 1992 when the USSR collapsed, but because of their current corrupt oligarchy capitalism, controlled mainly by the Russian mafia which Putin has ties to, most Russians have yet to benefit from their form of capitalism.
In all the current countries that made up the USSR, most older people will say that life was better before 1992.

What you're describing is more modernisation and the more foreign trade, Europeans teaching Chinese how to built factories is just modernising - factories exist in communist and non communist countries, so just by modernisation and allowing foreign trade doesn't differentiate different kinds of capitalism.

When Russia was communist then dropped the communism - what's changed? Apart from modernising their economy and allowing more foreign investors and foreign trade? Capitalism still exists before and after the changes in government, despite attempts at prohibiting it by the government.

So, when you say in 1992 Russia communist capitalism changed to oligarchy capitalism, I don't see much actual change in the capitalism except the name change - the textbook theories and textbook definitions don't apply well to real world situations.
 

VillellaMcMeans

I'm a porn expert.
Impressive. Please tell us more jackass.

Ok, I will. I encourage anyone reading to click on your name to search your past posts to see for themselves what a pompous jackass and hypocrite you are - you like to ridicule others and at the same time suck up to the moderators to try to get them to help you retaliate against other posters.

Such as what you did to me in the Canada thread and what you did to @mongo18 in the capitalism thread.

You're a pathetic internet clown that likes to try to show off - you're simple and transparent. You Might impress others on the internet, buy it's easy to see you're a weak bully pretending to be sophisticated.
 
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